Just a short note to let you know that I had a great experience at the recent 2 day Single Plane clinic held this past Saturday and Sunday, July 13-14, 2013, in Orlando. Clay Farnsworth is simply a great teacher of the necessary skills to play great golf. I am for the most part a total beginner and after watching some of your videos (Tim, Todd, and Dave) I wanted to speed up my learning and decided to attend this clinic. Clay was able, among other things, to quickly and accurately guide me in improving my feeling for positions 0-6. The "whys" for training my golf swing in the style of Moe Norman were explained to me by Clay and this helped me to appreciate what I was learning as well as understanding the genius of Norman himself.

Thanks a lot guys.

Ron S.

Ron S.

Just wanted to let you guys know that thanks to your hard work my swing is finally
coming around.
I just shot 65 on a par 72 course. I was 29-36, a total of 9 birdies and 2 bogeys.
It wasn't my best score that I have every shot but it was by far the simplest round that I have played.
Thanks again for all your help.

Matt R.

Received the Alignment and Ball Position Trainer in the mail today, went
to the range and what a difference there is when you put the ball in the
right position and your feet are in the right position! This is a got to
have item if you want to learn the one swing plane method you teach.
Thank you for making it available.

Larry S.

I bought the Single Plane Solution the other day and read it/watched the
video as instructed. I went up the range today to practice the moves and
couldn’t resist hitting 30 balls.

It wasn’t perfect but was OK and I hit a couple of drives to the end of the
range which is something I have never done before!

This is the first time I have ever felt myself hitting from the inside with
the leverage angle maintained until late in the downswing. I have always
come over the top.

I must say I am really excited about how much I should be able to improve
now. My handicap is 14 and has been around that for many years.

Sorry if this is the wrong e-mail address for this type of mail but I just
wanted to let you know!

Chris D.

I wanted to let you know that I recently purchased the Single Plane DVD and Short Game. My ball striking has greatly improved because of your clear instruction. I'm very pleased with my new and improved golf swing. It really works.

Mark K.

I want you to know that I subscribed to the single plane solution a fortnight ago as I was desperate and not enjoying the game of golf at all. My handicap was moving up and as it was currently 22 I was desperate to improve or give the game away altogether. Having spent no more than 2 hours practicing your recommended single plane drills I went out this morning in my local club competition and shot 82 of the stick - finishing 10 up in a par event. It was unbelievable but even more so for my regular playing partners who were stunned at the improvement in my game.
As one of them said ' your game looked rock solid for the entire 18 holes".
What was fantastic for me was that it also felt that way.
Thank you Graves Golf Academy - I cant wait for next week.

Sandy B.

I wanted to thank you very much for the very informative webinar tonight. Great job. I can’t believe how much I learned from you guys. I’m guilty as charged on many of the mistakes you have seen in previous students.

Mark K.

Just came back from the golf course with my Moe swing--I am a first year golfer and played with 3 others who are very long term players and Billy Boy was low man with a 79

Can't wait till I really know what I'm doing!

I guess I'm on course as one of the other players, whom I never met before today, remarked that my swing reminded him of Moe Norman. I guess I'm going in the right direction!

Bill M.

I feel compelled to give you all the highest praise for this weekend's three-day school. I could not be either more satisfied with the experience or the thought that I now have a realistic road map necessary to develop a much stronger game of golf than I came into the weekend with. Every one of each of you provided critical assistance in what definitely feels like steps in the right direction.

I feel that a very large door has been opened to my overall golfing development, and, most importantly, in many aspects of the game. It is obvious to me that you have worked extremely hard to create a finely-tuned machine, and I appreciate your efforts.

Ken O.

My experience was great. And as great as it was Jerry Martin made it terrific. This guy is 'the best'. I am & have always been a fan of Moe & all you fellas. I look forward to future follow-up lessons.

Jimy M.

Today we had a surprise warm up in Maryland, 70 degrees. I went to the driving range and hit a bucket using only my 7 iron (walk before I run). Having read the startup ebook and watched a bit of the video I used what I could remember about your program. Years ago I used to hit my 7 iron 150 yards. With my current age (79 this July) I was now settlling for 120. Today I was hitting the 7 iron straight as a arrow for 135/140 yards. I beleive that once I get better at keeping the butt of the club pointing to the leverage point on the way back, etc. I can improve even more. Next time out I shall try some other clubs.
Sorry to bother you with this but I feel I have to tell someone and my wife is not a golfer. If I go knocking on neighbors doors they will think I have gone goofy.

Ed B.

The new DVD Improve Your Move might be the best thing you guys have done. I say this b/c you make CRYSTAL CLEAR a very elusive and misunderstood aspect of Moe's swing that I (and I suspect others) have grappled with for many years. I don't want to say that this is the complete key to Moe's swing, but it is in the top 3 "must haves" in his swing for one to be successful.

Excellent stuff. The scales have fallen from my eyes. Thanks. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely - Bob

Bob Bowen

Hopefully if this isn’t Todd or Tim’s email you could see that they see this. I was in the golf camp in OKC in May and learned so much. I had the misfortune of having to have eye surgery after I got home and didn’t get to play for over a month. The weather has been so hot that I really haven’t played much at all even our league only plays 9 holes when the temps are in the 3 digits. This week is the first time I have played 18 holes since June so was really pleased when I had a 99. I know that doesn’t sound like a great score but for me who usually is between 110 and 120 it was GREAT. I have those new clubs and they are wonderful but my skills have improved so much especially my short game. I can now get on the green in only one shot instead of the 3 or 4 that it used to take me and my putting is getting so much better.

I just wanted you all to know how much I enjoyed camp and think I may have to come again next year just so that I can remember all you taught. Be sure to tell Rhett hello for me.


Evelyn Adkins

I am writing to thank you for your invaluable assistance and for giving me back the game I love. Seven years ago my handicap was 8-10, depending on how much I was playing. While playing in a scramble, I injured my shoulder while driving the ball (most amateurs overswing in that format). Trying to be a tough guy, I decided to play on through it. Bad call. The following week I was diagnosed with a sprained left rotator cuff, torn muscles in my left bicep and forearm and a sublocated left elbow. The prescription. Physical therapy and no golf for at least 6 months. When I finally tried to play again, I could not do so without pain. About that time I retired and we moved away, breaking up the foursome with which I had played for twenty years. As far as I could see, my golfing days were over.

Six years later I discovered your website, downloaded your instructional manual and began to experiment in my back yard. It was so simple and made so much sense to me that I began to think that maybe I could play again after all. I asked you to do an online clubfitting, and found your recommendations eye opening. I ordered the Graves grips (which are incredibly helpful) and had them put on a set of custom hybrid irons built to the specifications you gave me. The result? I no longer hit the high-arching rainbows I used to hit with the conventional swing. But now I hit blue darts that are right at the green, saving all the lost strokes that come from tacking back and forth across fairways or hitting out of the woods. Amazing!

After practicing awhile, I am now happily back on the golf course. I still have so much to learn, but my swing thoughts are clearer than they have ever been. (1) Nail the grip (a no brainer with the Graves grips). (2) Keep the "rod" straight throughout. (3) Move the whole triangle. (4) Lock down the "claw" elbow to avoid the pull. (5) Make the good hip turn, and (6) keep the (front) anchor foot in place. It's "golf for dummies."

I'm now 71 years old. But I'm playing the sport I love again without pain. The conventional swing that relies on the left hand and arm to "pull the club through" was just too hard on my permanently damaged left arm and shoulder. The Norman swing, which relies on the right shoulder and arm to fire the club through relieves all that physical stress. The short stroke is easy on the back, and when properly executed is quite sufficient to put the ball effectively in play. Thanks to Moenormangolf, and specifically to you, for the best retirement gift a man could ask for.


Vancouver, Washington

Jim M

I just wanted to thank you for the improvements the Single Plane Solutions has made to me game. I bought the original Moe Norman Natural Golf tapes year ago and while they helped me in the short run I drifted back to the old two plane set up and regained my bad slice.

I retired a couple of years ago and was fortunate to get a part time job at the 5 Star Golf resort. I now had the opportunity to play unlimited golf but my game was embarassing. I bought other self help videos and even took a lesson from a PGA pro but nothing worked consistently. Then I dug out my old Natural golf tapes found a VCR and watched them. After searching for updates on Moe's system I discovered your site and ordered the DVD's. All I can say is they WORK. My drive is straight and long and my irons are consistent.

After 32 years of struggling with consistency, I'm finally enjoying the game.


Mark Reynolds
Johnsd Island SC

Mark Reynolds

Received the Feeling Of Greatness training club the other day and I have to tell you that thing is the king!  My son (12) and I were both killing practice balls in the back yard for a couple evenings, so last night we (and my wife) went to the driving range to hit some real balls.

I hit the ball a little farther than normal but what really stood out to me is how much straighter I hit it.  The grass was closed due to weather so we hit off the mat, which is pretty forgiving, but even so my shots were definitely straighter through the whole bucket.  Even my wife, who has seen zero of your videos, hit the ball straighter after holding the training club for about 30 seconds.  It was crazy. I hit a few with the trainer then hit my 6 iron and I was noticeably better right away.

Rolf C., Indianapolis, IN

I have been following you for a long time and purchased most of videos and training aids, but the Drills video is the most helpful thing that you have put out to improve my game. I have definite things to work on now (in my garage) and my score is beginning to reflect it. I am thinking my game is going to get more consistent. I do enjoy the Webinars and get a lot from you and Tim.
Thank you

Ralph Greenway


I want to congratulate GGC on last week's webinar. Your explanation of the MP was outstanding and finally clarified what Moe's vertical drop was. You are so correct in saying that you have to get from position 2 to position 3 properly, then from 3 to 4 for any chance of solid contact. Knowing and understanding all about the MP is critical. Your new Drills video was also a big help in getting body and club into the correct positions. I especially like the PVC drill. Well done on all counts.
Warm regards,
Joe B

Sent from my iPad2
Joe B

Joe Buttitta

TO Graves Golf,

Thank you very much for your email. I am held up on my journey at the moment because of a right hip resurfacing. I am really looking forward to practising the moe norman way when I am up and at 'em. Keep up the good work guys. I must say that I swapped to your method from another method who claims they have the answer. I will not say who it is but they are in every pop up in golf. The results from your swing was phenomenal, I was up until last week, playing my best golf ever and that was in the 3 weeks I had taken up your method.
Thanks guys, keep up your great work. Here's to little Moe!!!!
All the best John Bosco

John Boscoe


I received my SPS video yesterday. Thank you for the prompt delivery. I watched the video and read the e-book last night and suddendly that dim bulb in my head just got a lot brighter. As I went through the video I was using my trianing club for grip practice and checking my posture and stance. I discovered I was not adhering to the recommended set up distances from the ball for the different clubs. I copied the distances and hit the range today. To say my practice round was a success would be an understatement. This new video has and will continue to be my golf bible. I can't wait for my round on Friday.

I just want to thank you, Tim and the rest of your staff for your commitment to making the game "easier" for a us. The Graves approach works.

Warm Regards,

Lenny Molbert

Hi Tim,
I just wanted to let you guys know that in my opinion October's webinar was by far the best webinar you guys have ever done! Tons and tons of priceless information! Especially the segment about proper spine movement. I have watched that webinar three times so far and each time I watch it, more and more lightbulbs are going off.

I might just be an ignorant kid but there is not another person or outfit in the golfing world that is as proficent when it comes to knowing the golf swing inside and out as you guys do. The Graves Golf Academy is nothing but a first class operation, top notch all the way around! I truly mean that. I see all the garbage that is out there today and it is no wonder year after year golfers keep getting worse and worse. I actually saw a colum in golf digest this month that advocated straightening the lead knee at impact!

I thank God everyday that I found you guys (or that He itroduced me to you guys depending on how you look at it) Anyways keep up the good work because you guys have found yourselves a student for life. You couldn't get rid of me even if you tried HAHAHAHA.
Your Friend
-Chris A

Chris Anderson

Good Afternoon Scott, Todd & Tim;

I wanted to thank the three of you (and Clay too) for the experience I had at your instruction school a few weeks ago. I enjoyed your collective approach and look forward to working with you.

Work & life move pretty quickly so this is the first moment I’ve had to write and thank you.

I’ve been a reasonably decent golfer since I took up the game in my early teens. I am usually one of the better golfers in my ‘social’ group. However, I’ve never been really happy with my game. I want to be a scratch golfer (or better). My drive and passion is to play against the course & the elements on the course on a given day and feel like I’ve won. To me, that means I need to play scratch. Like Tim, I enjoy playing alone on a Sunday afternoon. My enjoyment comes from playing a good round. I don’t have to beat anyone. In fact, nothing is better than playing with someone who is having a great round (as long as I am too!).

I turn 50 in August 2012. My college roommate is turning 50 as well. He and I and 2 other good friends are going to Scotland on a 7 day golf trip to celebrate. My goal: Shoot in the 70’s…hopefully around par each round. Before coming to your school, I would normally shoot in the low 80’s, with an occasional high 70 or high 80. I have hope that this new swing can help be break the 80 to 85 range that I’ve been stuck in most of my life. I’ve got about 9 months to get there.

Since leaving your school, I have been working on grip, set-up, getting hip rotation and getting the club on an inside path. I’ve been doing a lot of work with PVC pipe and only hit balls once. I’ve been able to do about 15 minutes a day in the back yard each day. I hit balls for the first time this past Sunday & liked the result.

The ‘in your face’ smart phone holder device came in yesterday, so I will be sending you a video sometime in the next few days.

Thanks again gents.

Michael C

Michael C

Hey Todd and Tim,

I just wanted to share my recent experience with your swing system and to tell you how much I appreciate what you are doing.

On March 21st of 2011, I suffered a complete rupture of my left Achilles tendon while running. Following surgery on March 28, I was faced with a long rehab and limited mobility as well as a long absence from the golf course. Over the course of the next three months, much of my time was spent on crutches and then in a walking boot.

Unable to swing a golf club, I decided to turn to your DVD and get a better understanding of the Moe Norman swing. I had owned the DVD for a few months as well as the swing training club, but had not put a lot of time into taking advantage of either one.

Eventually, I was able to make some easy swings with the swing trainer and practice the positions at about half speed. I watched the DVD numerous times and I began to feel like I knew what I was supposed to do, but was not sure I could make my body do it on the course.

On July 5th, I began a new workout routine and slowly got back to almost normal, and even added some light running and racquetball ball into my routine. I countinued to swing the training club but was not able to make it to the golf course. ( Our town was devastated by the April 27th tornadoes that hit Alabama. The local course was closed through the summer and the weekends were consumed by clean up and repair).

Fast forward to November. The golf course is back open and I am, for the most part, back to normal. I had not played a round of golf since early March and I went to the course without much expectations at all. I found that making a full conventional golf swing was putting more stress on my left ankle than I was comfortable with and as a result, I decided to commit to the Moe Norman Single Plane Swing for that round of golf.

Keep in mind, I had hit very few golf balls since March and even fewer using your swing. I stepped up to the first tee and put my driver 280 yards down the left side of the fairway. My second shot was a 7 iron that I hit to the back edge of the green and knew from that moment that I would be a Single Plane golfer for the rest of my life. I out drove my playing partner on almost every hole and my I struck the ball with my irons as well as I can ever remember.

I went on to hit 14 of 16 fairways (the two par 3's I also put on the green) and I hit a few drives 300 yards. You have to realize that I am 5'8 170 lbs 40 yrs old and I have never hit the ball that straight or that far in my life.

Unfortunately, I can't say that I scored all that well. While I could put my drives down the middle, I had a bit more trouble with my iron shots. I hit all of my irons 15 to 20 yards farther than I was used to and it took me the first 15 holes to realize that I if I continue using the Moe Norman Single Plane Swing, I am going to have to get used to taking one less club as I approach the green. My old 9 iron shots I can now make with a pitching wedge, my old 7 iron shots can be made with an 8 iron, and even my fairway wood shots can be made with one less club. That is going to take some time to get used to, but I think I can adapt. 🙂

All in all, it was one of the most enjoyable rounds of golf I have played in quite some time. Even when I did have a mis-hit ball, it was still in play, leaving me in a position to get out of trouble instead turning a good hole into a disaster.

I am excited to think about how much my game can improve if I can attend on of your schools, which I hope to do in 2012.

I suppose that in a way, tearing my Achilles was a blessing in that it allowed my enough time to forget many of my bad golfing habits and replace them with good sound instruction, which you provide on the DVD.

Thanks for all that you are doing with Graves Golf and I hope to see you both next year.

Warmest Regards,

Jason Z

Jason Z

Firstly can I congratulate you on the SPS DVD. It is probably the best golf DVD I have seen and I have seen quite a few over the years – this one works!

I am trying to keep this my secret, as my playing partners look at me, like why is he addressing the ball several inches behind it.....I think you have a Simple Single Plane Solution which would benefit everyone.

Alan B.

I would like to once again thank everyone for my great school experience at Barona Creek Golf Resort in San Diego, Ca recently. I really appreciated the organization, professionalism and dedication that Todd, Tim, Scott and all the staff showed me and all the participants during the three days of instruction.

Even when the weather wasn't cooperating and I thought my personalized instruction was about to be compromised; never once did anyone say: "let's go in out of the rain and talk instead"; but instead soldiered on and continued to help me and the other students on the practice tee to find "our inner Moe"!

I couldn't have found a better group of dedicated professionals to help me with my game. I only wished there could have been a small social get together during the three days in order to get to know everyone a little better!

All continued success and best wishes to your fine organization!

David S.

Just wanted to let you know I played Royal Ashburn last week (never played it before) and I hit the ball better and straighter than I ever have in a long, long time. Even driving off the tee was, for the most part, long and straight. I just focused on staying on plane and not raising my hands so high on the back swing and it worked wonders!

Paul W.

I'm striking the ball better then ever. My drives are long and straight. I hit a lot more greens in regulation. But, I'm not scoring. I know I should practice my short game but driving the ball 265 yards down the fairway is a lot more fun. I play two games a week and the highlights of the summer is my three eagles. One with a 25 foot putt, one from 100 yards on a par 4 and my last one on Sunday from 140 yards on a par 5. I can't break 80 yet. I had three 80's, one with a 35 on the front nine. I will see you next spring (early May) for another lesson. I will work on the drills Todd suggested on his DVD. Your part on the newsletter is always interesting reading. I find myself more relaxed during the game and have a lot more fun.

Michel L.

I have been viewing the videos online since I received them yesterday. The short-game videos are very helpful, but the slow-motion sequences of Todd's swing are excellent. Each aspect of his body movement can be carefully viewed and (hopefully) burnished into my brain.

I am very excited to practice what your instructors have taught. Best wishes for success at your golf academy.

Ed W.

I have finally turned a corner that I have been trying to negotiate for months/years and I couldn't have done it without you. Thank you soooo much. I just wish I signed up to the IGA sooner and saved myself some time and aggravation.

Mike C.

Thanks Ron,
My drives are much longer and straighter.
My game is a lot more fun, my handicap is slowly coming down but I feel I can do a lot better.
I'll see you later.


Hi Scott,

I want to tell you that I am completely satisfied with the lessons I got from Todd, Tim & Ron. The swing tape analysis by Todd is incredibly helpful as are the accompanying 2 instructional tapes of Todd. I tell everyone who will listen about my wonderful time with the GGA this past July in Whitby. I think a friend of mine wants to sign up for your school next year after listening to me regarding my experiences at the school & watching my new improved swing.

Thanks to all of you.

A very happy & improving GGA student,


Jim K.

> Just wanted to let you guys know that thanks to your hard work my swing is finally coming around. I just shot 65 on a par 72 course. I was 29-36, a total of 9 birdies and 2 bogeys. It wasn't my best score that I have every shot but it was by far the simplest round that I have played.
> Thanks again for all your help.
> Matt

Matt Ross

Thanks for the video. I received the product last week. I got the PVC and watched the video, read the book, and practiced a bit with the PVC. The next day, Saturday morning May 28th I went out for some golf with friends. I played the first 2- 3 holes the old way and then figured what the heck, now is as good a time as any to start with the Single Plane golf. I normally score 95 – 97. The last time I played this same course I was over 100. Saturday I scored a natural 87. I parred 4 of the last 5 holes. I know my score would have been even better if they hadn’t just aerated and sanded the greens. Also, my back did not hurt and I was not exhausted like I usually am after 18 holes. One other thing. One of the guys in our foursome is friends with the marshal. He rode along with us for 3 or 4 holes and this usually intimidates me. Not on this Saturday outing. I hit some of the most beautiful shots that I have hit in a long time with him watching. He probably thought it was a fluke because he has seen me hit the ball before and knows my limitations. I have a bad back and I know this swing is going to afford me with years of enjoyable golf. Thanks so much.


Wayne M.

A friend of mine told me about Moe and my recent purchase of your instructional program immediately knocked off 10 strokes and increased my drives by 30 yards. Thank you very much, I will be reviewing the program all winter.

Scott N.

I attended the May 2010 school at Coffee Creek and played in my first tournament yesterday. I was the A Player and we won the scramble tournament. I continue to be excited with the progression of my golf game. Continue to do the drills-impact bag --PVC rod--watch the instructional DVD's--Webinars--deep practice--reading the Talent Code book again---etc. Finally broke away from the "Ball Beating Syndrome". Feels good for my golf to be headed in the right direction and gaining confidence. Still have a ways to go. Just wanted to pass the information along. Thanks again for all the help from everyone at the Graves Academy.


Jim G.

I believe that the Moe Norman swing will help everyone who studies it carefully, and follows the (very clear) instructions provided. Myself, I have studied the 'traditional' method(s) and although I can make them work, I cannot begin to duplicate the accuracy and the consistency that I get with Natural Golf. I played for 2 years with some people who consistently beat me by many strokes. Since I switched to Natural Golf, they can no longer keep up with me, and they don't like me as much any more. I have extreme confidence when I address the ball, that I am going to hit it straight where I want it to go - and I do. I feel sorry for the thousands of golfers who are struggling with the game, who could be so happy if they tried your system.

Elliot H.

Let me start by saying I have never written a testimonial for a golf product before.

I'm a 62 year old Australian golf fanatic. I've played for more than 40 years with a handicap between 8 and 12. During this time I've tried most of the popular swing theories and tips.

I recently bought your Single Plan DVD and the bonus flexibility DVD. Since adopting "Moe's Swing" with your help my ball striking has improved dramatically. I've probably picked up about 20 metres on my average drives and my accuracy is up by about 30% based on fairways hit.

The DVD is great, but I have found Tim's analysis on the flexibility DVD to be a key for me. In particular the separation of upper and lower body during the transition and the supporting drills/exercises. The hip turn start down just makes the downswing so stress-free and silky smooth - and the ball just blasts away.

It's a great feeling.

Thanks guys


Michael P.

My game has been a steady downhill process. At 64 years old, I know I'm going to lose some, but the two plane swing was doing nothing but hurting my back and knee. Since I've ordered your DVD (I watch it every day) and bought the ball trainer, Ive hit the ball more solid and farther. I look forward to your news letters and info...Thanks for your help

Bill B.

I am writing this small note to tell you how thankful I am for the e-book and now dvd's that I received the other day. I am a 8.5 hdcp that has been struggling with his game for about a year and a half . I've taken several lessons in that time that haven't help one bit. I order your tape and e-book last week, watched the tape practiced the next morning for about 20 mins. then went out and shot a 3 over par 74 at my home course. and today without any practice and a very rocky front 9 of 43 still came back and shot a 3 under par back 9 for a 76. I am hooked and loving it at 52 yrs young. I'm hitting everything farther and straighter than ever and the only reason I played so bad on the front was because I kept hitting everything long. Once I re-calibrated my yardages I was good as gold. Thanks to you your brother and Moe; God rest his wonderful soul.

Dave T.

It's going great. Shot an 87 from the women's tees at our cc on Friday. That's my personal best from that set of tees. Hit almost every fairway on the drives, which were all straight.
Have been using board a couple of times a week in our simulator's driving range to coach my muscles into remembering the stance widths. A very happy camper after going to your Orlando school. Please thank Todd for all of the time he put into my swing.


I just returned home from your recent 3 day school in Edmond, OK and would like to say that your school far exceeded my expectations. You guys are without a doubt the best instructors I have ever seen. I really appreciated the one-on-one assistance and your video training. Your whole team kept a close watch on each student, offered constructive advice, and rewarded our results with a high five, knuckles, and a big smile.
My thanks to all of you; Todd, Tim, Scott, Rhett and Trent for making my "Bucket List" event a totally memorable and rewarding event.
Now, back to the impact bag and PVC drill for me. I will keep in touch. Thanks again.

Ed H.

I hope all is well with everyone at Graves Golf. I wanted to let you guys know that yesterday I scored my first hole in one ever! I damn near holed it on the fly! It landed about one inch from the cup and in she went. (I think Moe may have been proud of that one) I am getting better and better everyday and I truly owe it all to you guys! I cannot emphasis how much I appreciate everything you guys have done for me! I just wanted to say thank you and let you guys know how much you guys have impacted not only my golf game but my entire life. Keep up the good work!

Your Friend,

Chris A.

You're right. Making the changes stick can be frustrating, especially when I'm doing it in the middle of the golf season. The hardest part is disregarding the results of the ball flight. Best attitude for me is to get a little bit better every day and not expect heroics in one or two days.
Besides all the tips and techniques the Academy offers for modeling Moe's swing, the emphasis on how to practice and the philosophy of gradually working toward the goal is most helpful.
I'm convinced that video review in the Graves Internet Golf Academy is the quickest way to improvement.
Great school.

Keith C

You can't imagine how surprised I was to receive this analysis and the tips for correcting my over swing. The customer service model you have developed with the emphasis on "After Care" will, I predict, make your customers extremely successful and you very wealthy.

I grew up when everyone was emphasizing the inside out swing. Like most golfers, I have exaggerated this movement to my own detriment. The concept of keeping the lead arm above the trail arm throughout the swing will help me not only with the full swing but also with chipping and pitching.

It is refreshing to meet a team of people who are committed to the long term improvement of their customers.
I look forward to a long lasting relationship with the Graves' Golf Academy!

Sincerely, Kurt

Kurt C.

Tim , Todd , Scott:

Just a follow up -

Last weekend I was able to win our Club Championship in the second grouping hdcp . Started off to win first hole ..never looked back ..up by 4 at one point ..got nervous on back ...lost my swing off the tee on few holes ,but my short game was solid (thanks Tim ) .

Thanks again for all of your help !


Dave C.

Todd, thanks again from Scott and myself to you and Tim, and your staff for an excellent three days of golf instruction. We were already sold on the Moe Norman method, and your webinars had convinced us the instruction would be great. Icing on the cake was your approach to learning and improvement, and the way your program was organized.




Thanks so much for the effort you put into this past weekend's school. I had no expectations as to where it would lead for me as a golfer but was really blown away by the personel instruction and time you spent to help me and the rest of us. It was tailored for the ability level of each student, how that worked is still a mystery to me but you all made it work. I've never had a good mechanics lesson and your teaching method and Moe's legacy made it very easy for me to understand, hard to perform but easy to understand. I really liked the more technical reasons on why things are done the way they are, I've been without formal training for a long time and just getting back into golf after a short season 3 years ago and good play 20 years before that. I wanted to come to school to basically start over and you all have really opened my eyes to where I need to go to get a solid foundation built once again. My long term goal is to play well again and start shooting my age in 6-7 years, not asking much am I?

Really enjoyed the weekend, pass my thanks to Jared, Brent and Clay.



Just a quick note to say thank you once again. I had a great time this past weekend. Your teaching style and golf philosophy made it one of my memorable experiences ever. I did not have an email for Jared, could you pass on my thanks and appreciation to him as well?
I look forward to continuing my journey.




Graves Golf

I am held up on my journey at the moment because of a right hip resurfacing. I am really looking forward to practising the moe norman way when I am up and at 'em. Keep up the good work guys. I must say that I swapped to your method from another method who claims they have the answer. I will not say who it is but they are in every pop up in golf. The results from your swing was phenomenal, I was up until last week, playing my best golf ever and that was in the 3 weeks I had taken up your method.
Thanks guys, keep up your great work. Here's to little Moe!!!!

All the best


Dear Bro. Grave -

seriously...when is the current NG going to hand you guys the keys and go away? The book/video are brillant in its straightforwardness and simple style. I'm not usually 'moved' by a instruction books but the whole thing exudes a love of the game, the method, your love of teaching, and Moe; surely this will be the opus in single plane instruction.

Good job!!

Sincerely - Bob



I received my SPS video yesterday. Thank you for the prompt delivery. I watched the video and read the e-book last night and suddendly that dim bulb in my head just got a lot brighter. As I went through the video I was using my trianing club for grip practice and checking my posture and stance. I discovered I was not adhering to the recommended set up distances from the ball for the different clubs. I copied the distances and hit the range today. To say my practice round was a success would be an understatement. This new video has and will continue to be my golf bible. I can't wait for my round on Friday.

I just want to thank you, Tim and the rest of your staff for your commitment to making the game "easier" for a us. The Graves approach works.


Todd and Tim,

Received my new DVD yesterday, watched it, and immediately went to the range to hit balls. Without a doubt your teaching methods work! Simple, to the point and I could put it to the test quickly. This is without a doubt your best training DVD ever, especially for those of us who haven't made it to one of your schools yet. You sure make the game of golf more enjoyable and easier to understand and achieve. Thank you for such a great DVD.



just wanted to mention to you that I really enjoyed and appreciated the time on the weekend that you spent helping me…I had my first round of golf last night and I improved that round by 6 strokes..

I enrolled in the class very frustrated and ready to end my golf season early. After spending 2 days with “The Moe Norman Golf Experience”, I have a different outlook on the game.

The instructors are very knowledgeable and ready and willing to give you all the help you need as well as answer any questions you have.

Whether you’re in the classroom or on the practice range it is a fun filled day, and I strongly recommend this to anyone who wants to improve there game.

Brenda W

Just to let you, again, what a great time Rae and I had and how enthusiastic we both are about working on our swing. I found a great deal on eBay for a camera, $120 + $7 shipping so we ordered 2. Also received the video of our swings today. When you watch the video again it really hits home how important feedback is.

Thanks again and we’ll be in touch

Terri L

The Moe Norman Golf Experience two day instructional course at Hidden Lake was a very professional experience. Introduced by Ron Cruikshank and led by Little Moe (Todd Graves) himself, it was a total intellectual and physical involvement in learning the basics of the golf swing as modelled by Moe Norman.

How refreshing to have the best instructors who can not only ‘talk the walk’ but also walk it. With A-Level PGA pros like Tim Graves who have played with the best in the world and who have won tournaments under pressure, you know you are in good hands. These folks know what they are talking about!

I can’t imagine any other sport or any other professionals in golf taking as much time and effort to work with each individual participant in a knowledgeable, caring and supportive manner regardless of their achievement levels. I am 67 years old and have trouble breaking 100 and yet I felt like I was treated with great respect and courtesy. Every encounter with every staff member was positive, precise, and helpful.

Most importantly, I now feel that I have the right information, the right tools, and the correct practice methods to help me achieve my own goals in playing golf. They have done their part, now it is up to me. Knowing that I have them available for ongoing evaluation and instruction both on the internet and in person, is invaluable.

Take a chance. Take a course. Learn, achieve, and enjoy.

BP: Ancaster, Ontario Canada

With the Moe Norman single plane swing, I've improved from shooting in the 120's to the high 70's!

Chuck Carnivale

You're going to hit that ball down the middle that day and every day... knowing that, that's where you're headed, it's a wonderful thing.

Jeff Turner

Using the Moe Norman Single plane swing, I've reduced my handicap from 18 to under 8."

Russ Graunke

I can’t thank you enough for the enjoyable and educational three days. It is always good to see you all (I’m starting to talk like I’m from Oklahoma). I had a great time. I have lots of things to work on. Next time you see my swing, it will be better and a step closer to Moe’s.

It is interesting to work through the process of learning a new swing. I like change, because change is always good. I like Tim’s concept of establishing new habits versus changing old habits. It amazes me how much there is to learn about Moe’s swing. I am a student and I am always learning.

I have noticed over the last three years of attending camps and schools and owning and studying all of your DVDs; you are getting better at teaching the swing. You were/are always very good at teaching the swing, but every time I attend a school you are better. I believe that is because of two things; I am becoming a better student and you are becoming better teachers. I want to emphasize and be clear, you were very good teachers before, but you still are getting better.

The DVDs are very helpful but there is no substitution for hands on/in person instruction. I feel very fortunate that I have the resources to get the instruction. I always leave school with a clearer understanding of Moe’s swing concepts. I return home and work through all of the DVDs with the new understanding and I recover more treasures from them. I was obviously naïve when I went to my first 5-day camp in 2005. I can remember thinking that this was my one and only chance to get the swing down. I felt a lot of pressure to grasp it all. No way did that happen, or could it happen. I remember Tim telling us to keep an open mind. The last two times I have attended school I arrived with a list of questions, but I came with an open mind and told myself I am a sponge and I am here to absorb as much as possible. I have learned concepts this year and last that would have been impossible for me to grasp two years ago.

Initially when I decided to make changes to my swing I set a five year time limit. I took up golf when I was 14 years old. I played on a high school team and was fortunate enough to play on a college team. The swing I had by the time I went to college took three years to create. So I thought five years was a fair time frame. I no longer have a time limit. Todd’s response to a June 10th message about “how long does it take” was “magical” for me. As Todd said, attitude is the key (“Do whatever it takes, as long as it takes”, enjoy the journey). I am committed and I know it will be hard, but it’s not worth it if it isn’t (If it wasn’t hard, then everyone would be doing it). I keep that forum reply in my pocket at all times (I will have to print it off again, as the original is tattered and torn).

Bill A., Anchorage, AK

Tim, Todd, Scott and staff: First a belated thank you for the 3 day school at Whistle Bear. Like most who attend your golf school there is a story behind our attendance here’s mine.

I had golfed occasionally as a teenager and as a young adult, with indifferent results. Then with a job transfer etc I stopped playing until I took it up again 5 years ago after I retired.

My introduction into Moe Norman and Natural golf occurred while vacationing in Myrtle Beach. I happened to pick up a local golf paper that was featuring Moe’s swing. There also was a feature on Natural golf in the same Issue. I decided to give this method a try and picked up a copy of the Natural golf Manual which was available at Martin’s a major golf retailer in the Myrtle Beach area.

At the time I was a chronic slicer and for a while my game did improve somewhat. I’m not sure exactly when, but somewhere in the next year or so I became aware of the Graves academy. I religiously read the chat forum and eventually purchased all the DVD’s and the feeling of greatness training club. I tried to copy the set up and swing but found that my game was not improving. I keep reading the positive reviews of those that had attended the various schools & longed to attend but the expense was a major hurdle on a pensioner’s income. In the last year I purchased other conventional instructors material all in an attempt to hit the damn ball straight. By now my slice was back big time. Fortunately my short game while not great was sufficient to keep me from quitting.

This July while driving home after a particularly frustrating round of golf and weighing my options I decided that if there was a cancellation in the Kitchener school, which was only 10 days away, I would scrape the money together & attend. (Kitchener being only 3 hours away and having relatives that I could stay at in Mississauga a 1 hour drive to Kitchener).

When I opened my E-mail that same night there was a message from Scott advising that 1 opening still remained for the Kitchener school and I filled the spot.

Was it worth it …..oh yes. Despite having all the video instruction and the training club, despite video taping my swing and analyzing my errors I was unable to catch the subtle little things that make the difference. Of course I had my trail arm ‘sunny side up” –but not enough. My shoulder line was not closed. My vertical tilt was insufficient etc.

Did these changes make a difference? At the school I hit the straightest, longest drives of my life. In fact the chronic slicer was getting instruction from Brent on how to cut back my draw. Is my slice gone forever, definitely not, learning new habits take time, but I now have the tools and knowledge to continue improving.

Graves’s academy is more than a swing school. You are introduced to all aspects of the game. Warm up, practice, shot making, mental attitude, course management etc.

Purchasing the Grave’s DVD’s et al is a great first step and excellent resource material but if you game has stalled then please, please do yourself a favor and go to school. You won’t regret it.

PS. I now know why so many of the school students were alumni. Now if I could just swing a 5 day build you game session.

Wayne C., Britt, Ontario, Canada

As of 1 Aug my index dropped to 7.5 when I posted the score representing my (former) final goal in golf. Shooting my age was something I thought might take a little more time, but yesterday I had a 70 (matching my age) and was the first ever sub-par round in my golfing "career". Now I have to make up some new goals. Shooting in the 60's comes to mind.

Anyway, call me a walking advertisement to Swing Like Moe and the Graves Golf Academy. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Actually, Going to the three day school did a great job of confirming the things that I had gotten right from the "Seven Principles" and the "Troubles & Solutions" and then tweaking the things I needed a little help with. It has paid off much greater than I could have expected.

Thanks again to you, Todd and Tim.

Charlie F., Colonial Heights, VA

Just want to pass along my progress since attending your 3-day school in April. As I’ve mentioned to you, I’ve attended a number of conventional and single-axis golf schools since I started charting the progress of my handicap back in 1999. The sad truth of the matter is that after getting my USGA index down to a 9.6 in mid-2005, I saw it steadily climb to almost a 12 by the beginning of 2007. My scoring average has been sitting at 89 strokes per round for as long as I can remember. And, while I could occasionally shoot in the low 80’s, it’s was not uncommon for me to follow it up with a round in the high 90’s. It was extremely frustrating!

By the beginning of this year I was totally demoralized. I had no idea which direction any shot I hit was going. It wasn’t unusual for me to play a round and not hit a single fairway or green in regulation. To make matters even worse, my lower back was starting to kill me after playing 18 holes. I had pretty much decided that as I approached my 50th birthday this year, I was going to have to give up the game I had loved, but had eluded me since I was a kid. Strangely enough, that was about the time I re-read Turk Pipkin’s “The Old Man And The Tee” and it inspired me to give the game one more chance.

I had some limited success with other single-axis methods in the past, so after much research I decided that given Todd’s reputation, the Graves Golf Academy was going to be my last hope. The school this April in Oklahoma City was awesome despite the bad weather. But more importantly, the depth and breath of the information provided by the GGA on the website and on the DVD’s is head-and-shoulders above any other single-axis method being taught.

To try to make a long story short, I struggled a bit after the school. My USGA index climbed to just over a 15. I wasn’t concerned because I fully expected things to get worse before they got better. In the last few weeks, things have really started to click. I attribute it mainly to:

. A lot of video analysis.

. Watching Todd on the DVD’s over and over.

. Feedback Todd & Tim provide on the forum.

. Tim’s short game instruction during the 3-day school.

. Ordering clubs from Tim that fit!!

Last week, after an epiphany around the non-rotational movement of the trail arm, I really started hitting the ball solid and straight. Today, I played my home course from the back tees where my scoring average over the last year and a half has been almost 88 strokes. I shot a solid: 78

. Out 38/ In 40

. 8 fairways, 8 greens in regulation, 31 putts.

. 12 pars, 6 bogeys, up and down almost 50%.

I got so nervous as I realized the round I was shooting I could barely hold the putter, I was shaking so bad.. I missed 4 putts inside of 3 feet coming in. This is only the second time in my life I’ve broken 80, and the first time since 2003. I can’t thank you guys enough for restoring my love for this game and introducing me to Moe’s swing that I firmly believe is a swing that will hold up for the rest of my life. Plus, no back pain since switching from conventional golf.

Keep up the good work and I can’t wait to attend my first alumni class.

Frank R., San Antonio, TX

I wanted to pass along that the most recent school here in Chicago was a great experience, as always, and I’d also like to tell everyone who has yet to attend a GGA school how much they are missing. I have been to a total of four different schools including two of the three-day schools, one build-your-game camp and an alumni school in the last two years. I can honestly say that not only am I playing better golf, I’m having more fun playing (and practicing, too) because I understand the game so much better. I learn more and more each time I attend and that’s why I’ll continue to come back.
The other great thing is that all the schools have been a lot of fun. What could be better? The reason the schools are such an all around success is without question the staff of instructors. In addition to Todd and Tim, Brent has really proven to be a quality instructor with a great eye for the swing and a great personality and attitude. Most recently Clayton was on board for the Chicago school and he was also a really good instructor and a great person to be around. Not only are all the instructors knowledgeable, they are really good teachers. I’d encourage anyone who has not attended a school to make an effort to do so. I’m already looking forward to my next one. Thanks again to everyone at the GGA for another great time and I look forward to seeing you all again very soon.

Ben P., Chicago, IL

I just wanted to say “thanks” for something I learned during last week’s webinar. It wasn’t a main part of the webinar, just a passing mention of the fact that you set up by aligning your lead arm, the Rod, Then your trail arm, The claw, in the tilted Y before placing the clubhead, and your feet, with the ball in the correct position. I now do it this way, in that order and it makes a HUGE difference…shouldn’t but it does. Just thought you might want to know. Thanks.


Thanks for the quick feedback on my swing. I have been a longtime admirer of your work, and consider myself an avid supporter of the single plane swing and of Moe Norman himself. I have many of the original videos you did with him years ago. I am uploading some new videos I took today, trying to implement the feedback you gave me. One swing thought that helped, was the feeling of pushing my left hip forward at address. I still seem much more upright than you recommend, and my hinge is not near as early or as dramatic, even when trying to do so. I am a single digit handicapper who is not satisfied, as you stated in your last blog post. I am willing to work diligently on developing a very repeatable swing, and seek to gain a deeper understanding of the single plane swing. Thanks again for your hard work, and I look forward to hearing back again soon.

Shannon W. - Galveston, TX

During this last webinar talking about the hip turn and back swing moving simultaneously it started to make more sense than before. I mean, I heard it before a hundred times if I heard it once but it never clicked like this before. I used to purposely hold my lower body stiff because of low back issues. I thought the hips would take care of themselves. But making the back swing, hip turn (without straightening the back knee), letting the front knee bend a little without lifting the foot off the ground actually felt like a freer swing. I was able to get to the top of the back swing on plane, where as before I was above the plane on the back swing then steep on the down swing…consistently. By getting the back swing to move together it made the down swing “feel” like a vertical drop or coming from the inside.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m realistic here. I know I still have work to do, but yesterday I broke 100. 99! To be exact; by the strict rules of golf, at an unfamiliar course I might add. Now that might not be very good but considering I shot 112 the time before that and I had no idea where the ball was going to go… I feel like I’ve turned a corner, I feel comfortable over the ball. Here’s to continuing to get better and better working on my new goal… breaking 90! Thank you for all the things you do to make the average golfer better.

Thank You,

Matthew C. - San Diego, CA

Yesterday, I was chipping balls as I do every afternoon. I have always shanked about 20% of them. I stopped trying to take the club inside on the backswing and went straight back and up. What a difference! I have been trying to exaggerate the inside move in my backswing all along so as to come from inside out on the downswing. That appears to me what Jerad says I rotate my hands in the backswing. It's not so much a rotation as a deliberate move to go inside. Sometimes I can be a very slow, hard headed learner, that is the German in me! Thanks for your patience, I want to get better.

Skip M. - Englewood, FL

I felt I had made a major breakthrough soon after my last evaluation but was afraid I was getting away from what I was doing then. Todd validated my evaluation as he singled out the clips that were taken at that time. I'm feeling better about getting back on track, now that I know more about what I'm looking for... Many thanks to both of you for taking the time to help.

Paul L. - Mary Esther, FL

I took a quick run through the place and it looks like I have a lot of catching up to do, boy there is a lot of stuff here for me to relearn and some to see for the first time, which I didn’t think was possible.
Great job guys, the site looks good and the webinars are totally blowing me away. I can’t believe the amount of stuff you guys can cram into an hour. You guys never cease to amaze me.


Hi, Just wanted to say that I find the “Before and After” section to be extremely helpful. I learn, and understand things a lot better when I see what not to do. Please keep this section …Thanks so much for this site and section.


Just wanted to let you and Todd know how much the “Mind of Moe Norman” DVD has helped…

I know that you and Todd have taught me a lot of the stuff that was on the video, but something about that just seemed to click. I have completely changed my mental approach to the game, and as you know, it needed it. Well, by simply following the principles on the DVD and focusing on that, I have made a dramatic turnaround in my ball striking. I am the most relaxed and consistent that I have ever been, and I know it will get better. I’m making better contact, hitting better shots, and having more fun. I’m also losing fewer golf balls (a huge bonus!!). My scoring is also improving significantly, and as short game practice and play progress, I know I will be scoring better than ever.

I played with a guy today who had not seen me play in 4 months. He was amazed at the difference. He just could not get over it. He asked me if I had been practicing a lot, and I told him the story above. He was not surprised that it had made a big difference. He understands the importance of the mind in golf.

I guess the moral of the story is that when “the student is ready, the master will appear”. In this case, it was Todd and Rick Carlisle on the DVD. Thanks for your commitment to our improvement. I really believe the last piece of my puzzle is in place.

John W

I have just finished going through the videos and the e-book and feel like I just made a very worthwhile investment.
The  "jewel" was in position 2  "you go in and up" and not around. I have thought I needed to go back farther. It makes sense once you hear it, so I hope I can master that.
But, bottom line, Good job.

Ralph Greenway

Thank you for the fine videos and E-Book.  These instruction materials are simple and extremely well produced. 

My golf game has improved as well as my enjoyment of this great game because of your hard work and dream.  I, too, am a believer that our "moments" are a great part of what makes life worth living. I completely understand your passion and thank the Graves Brothers and all members of your team for adding so much to my moments.
Very truly yours,

Bill Stratton

Thanks Todd, I received your new DVD today and I håve already watched it twice.  Great DVD, I think you broke the swing down better than I have ever understood before, I guess I am just a slow learner.  Tim and you are great together, don't ever give it up.  


Dave Stutler

Todd, your commitment to continue to improve your teaching methodologies and passion for simplifying the golf swing through Moe Norman's golf swing is, to say the least, commendable and I thank you for the time you have put into this swing method. 

I have attended your golf school and purchased your DVD training sets and although it has not been an easy road for me (I am one of those "hard" learners and took up golf late in life),  I am seeing another level of improvement happen as I re-study the DVDs and do the drills, PVC, impact bag, etc.... My handicap index is 14...when I started 7 years ago it was 30. 

The single plane golf swing is one I will take with me until my golf days end and I consider you and Tim as my "personal" swing coaches.  Looking forward to seeing the improvements in the new DVD.
PS: The E-BOOK combination is a great tool to accompany the DVD.


Thank you very much for your email. I am held up on my journey at the moment because of a right hip resurfacing. I am really looking forward to practicing the Moe Norman way when I am up and at 'em.

Keep up the good work guys.

I must say that I swapped to your method from another method who claims they have the answer. I will not say who it is but they are in every pop up in golf.

The results from your swing was phenomenal, I was up until last week, playing my best golf ever and that was in the 3 weeks I had taken up your method.

Thanks guys, keep up your great work. Here's to little Moe!!!!

All the best

John Bosco

Todd, I received my SPS video yesterday.  Thank you for the prompt delivery.  I watched the video and read the e-book last night and suddenly that dim bulb in my head just got a lot brighter.  As I went through the video I was using my training club for grip practice and checking my posture and stance, I discovered I was not adhering to the recommended set up distances from the ball for the different clubs.  I copied the distances and hit the range today.

 To say my practice round was a success would be an understatement.  This new video has and will continue to be my golf bible.  I can't wait for my round on Friday.

I just want to thank you, Tim and the rest of your staff for your commitment to making the game "easier" for a us.  The Graves approach works.

P.S.  Tell Tim I paid attention to him during our short game instruction in OC in 2007.  My short game is the cornerstone of any success I've enjoyed.

Warm regards,

Lenny Molbert

Todd and Tim,

Received my new DVD yesterday, watched it, and immediately went to the range to hit balls.  Without a doubt your teaching methods work!  Simple, to the point and I could put it to the test quickly. 

This is without a doubt your best training DVD ever, especially for those of us who haven't made it to one of your schools yet.  You sure make the game of golf more enjoyable and easier to understand and achieve. 

Thank you for such a great DVD.

Ed Harper Jr.

Todd and Tim ,
I just finished  reviewing your new DVD.
I want to say that I think this may be your best work yet ! The main reason I feel this way is that in this DVD it is simple, direct and to the point! You do not have a lot of extra dialogue in it.
In addition the graphics are great, you put in the tabs / sections for us to go back to easily, and the addition of showing Moe's swing and his plane lines are a big plus.
Well done!

David Callahan

The new video and e-book really hit the nail on the head. I bought the package since Todd and Tim are so dedicated to their swing system and just wanted to be part of their success.

I thought I had a pretty good understanding of the swing just through your webinars and online materials, and have been working on the swing since before Todd started up the academy, but I was able to pick out two movements/concepts from the video I was doing wrong and have since implemented those changes and went out and hit the ball the best I have ever done. Scoring I’m sure will follow once I figure out my new, longer distances per club.   

Mike Aho

I'm a long term advocate of Moe's method. I've gone to NG schools and taken numerous lessons from a number of their instructors. They've helped me become a decent golfer (i.e., 13-15 handicap), but I've been very inconsistent and have become increasingly frustrated in the last few months as I watched my handicap grow to nearly 19.

A recent round of 99 on my home course was the straw that broke the camel's back! As soon as I recovered enough to think clearly, I realized I needed help.

In the nick of time along came one of your emails advertising the "Single Plane Solution" DVD. I ordered a copy. I watched it 3-4 times. It answered a number of my questions. It took away doubt and replaced it with a system that is simple, straight forward and makes sense.

The result (after just one practice session) - my very next round I shot 83. The one after that was an 88, which included 7 over on the last two holes as I wilted a bit in the heat and humidity here in Florida.

Thanks for a great product!

Andy Myer